You say you are against hosting intentionally erotic content, and that is a flawed statement. All content designed to look appealing is intentionally erotic. At least in fetish wiki cases where there is no nudity which violates fandom standards and other such acts. Besides, reddit and deviantart have managed just fine, they just make sure not to feature that stuff out in the open. This way they don't alienate the communities and casually kick them out over some false sense of superiority.
Hey, on Google's advice we're migrating the remaining wikis (about 10% of total traffic) slower since we ran into an issue with Google ads. We're hoping it'll be finished by the end of this month, so if all goes well your wiki should be migrated some time in the next 11 days.
I'm extremely concerned about recent actions taken to take down wikis that exist to compile scenes considered fetish, ecchi and otherwise 'inappropriate' by some unknown false morality. Several wikis have either been shut down or suddenly told, without adequate chance for discussion, that they will be shut down. This has not been posted formally on any part of the community site, and the only explanations received have been questionable claims of going 'family friendly'. I am using that terms in quotes because any traditional application would include media that contain graphic violence or sex, which applies to featured wikis such as Game of Thrones.
If Fandom is insistent on pursuing this course of action (which is as of right now pointlessly excluding people who were able to share passions on a shared resource) I would please ask that you at least better communicate why this is happening and post formal information about these new policies on the community wiki.
We need to update the community creation policy in general (that's coming soon) but to my knowledge all wikis were contacted with info about why we're doing this and some suggestions for how to find alternative hosting. Can you link me to the message you received?
Brandon Rhea wrote: We need to update the community creation policy in general (that's coming soon) but to my knowledge all wikis were contacted with info about why we're doing this and some suggestions for how to find alternative hosting. Can you link me to the message you received?
Thanks for that. I can see where there might be some confusion, including in the comparison to Game of Thrones, about what our stance actually is.
Personally “family friendly” is not the term I would have used (and it sounds like Sannse has said that's a too bit broad as well). There’s plenty of topics, like Game of Thrones, in the world of pop culture that don’t qualify. And if we were just doing this to be family friendly, then there’s a ton of pop culture we’d have to leave out. Arguably in today’s day and age a PG-13 movie is often not family friendly.
What it comes down to is the intention of the wiki and the intention of the reader. In the case of Game of Thrones, the intention of the editors of that wiki is to document the lore of the show. The show just so happens to include sex and violence, being for mature audiences, but that’s not the point of the show. Likewise, readers are coming to the wiki looking for information about characters, settings, plots, and other lore. 99.999% of people there are arguably not going to the wiki to look for sexual content.
Neither of those things can be said for ecchi wikis or fetish wikis. They are intentionally documenting something sexual or otherwise erotic, and that’s what the readers of a wiki like that are intentionally looking for. There was a time when that was something we were okay with when Wikia was more of a general reference site, but Fandom is a site based on sharing fan knowledge about pop culture and hobbies. Communities that are intentionally about sexual or erotic content just doesn’t fit the brand of a site that's about sharing lore and general information about games, movies, TV shows, comics, books, or other hobbies.
So yes, I support the decision of Sannse and the Community team to not host these communities anymore. Hopefully this clears it up more, but otherwise if you have any other questions I'd suggest continuing the conversation with Sannse since she is leading up this site hygiene process.
Yeah, that's still not clearing it up. How are fetishes not a hobby, something that would have fans (or a fandom if you will)? It anything it's an exploration and appreciation for recurring tropes in various works. So long as the pages aren't violating the nudity or foul language problems what is the harm?
I mean brass tacks it's a very arbitrary and ill-defined line. I can see going against a wiki that exposes personal information, is just photos of naked bodies, or otherwise goes extremely hard R if not NC17 with its content, but wikis about games that contain sex as a main theme, and fetishes that don't require nudity? That's really splitting hairs. There's no safety being violated, and fandom already has clear rules about the nudity thing. If all else fails why not find a way to let them exist but locked off from core fandom? As it stands you're torpedoing dozens if not hundreds of wikis with potentially years of work put into them over overly abitrary. Besides, at least fetish wikis are honest.
Here's a scenario for you: a 10 year old kid connects to the marvel cinematic universe wiki, and happens to see a link to the Game of Thrones wiki. Curious, he checks it out, and about two pages later has been exposed to a fair bit of use of the F-word, something parents may not want their 10 year old to learn. Now, obviously, if a fetish wiki were to pop up in that feed, that would be bad too, I won't deny that, but surely a better solution is to find a way to classify the wikis with something like a safe search or new category than just scrap them, anger a bunch of users who put their free time into discussing something they're passionate about, and lose the moral highground in any future censorship discussions?
Brandon Rhea wrote: We have no interest in hosting intentionally erotic content. I can't make it any clearer than that.
Actually you can. As it stands you're making a major policy shift in clandestine means with poorly defined justifcation for your actions, and the explanation I keep getting is inaccurate or insulting terms like 'family friendly' or 'hygiene'. You call your property 'fandom', and the whole nature of fans is forming communities of people who share similar interests, hobbies, etc. You're now deciding that these fandoms are no longer welcome because you feel like it, and seem to be expecting it to be accepted by claiming morality and purity while being deliberately exclusionary. That is incredibly troubling and for that reason your explanation is not sufficient.
This is the last reply I'm going to make to this thread.
Getting an answer you don’t like is not the same thing as getting an unclear answer.
The people who are going to your wiki are not there because they have an artistic appreciation of people who are paused in time or turned to stone. They are going there because they’re turned on by that, and it’s not hard to figure out what’s happening on the other side of their computer. And if we’re going to allow that, we might as well allow porn.fandom.com. Which we’re not going to do. That’s not what Fandom is about.
We have no objection to you hosting that content elsewhere. If we did, we would’ve just outright deleted these wikis. Instead, we’re giving time to find alternative hosting, such as Mirahaze, and ensuring that your wiki’s content can be downloaded so you can upload it elsewhere.
At the end of the day, we have no interest in hosting intentionally erotic content. That's fine if you disagree, but that's the decision and you need to find alternative hosting.