Hi, Pecoes. I wonder if you could help me with something? I also poked Lunarity, but I don't know which one of you is more active.
I'm using the Reference Tooltips script, but it is custom made for Wikipedia, or at least its layout, and it doesn't work properly on wikia. The "Disable Reference Tooltip" is messed up, for example, and the "Enable Reference Tooltip" link that is supposed to appear on the footer, doesn't. Could you please help?
I can't really tell you. I know of the script and I've seen it in use a few times, but I've never actually installed it myself. The docs say you can customize it: w:c:dev:ReferencePopups#Custom_Popups. Have you tried that? If you have and it didn't work, you might want to consult Lunarity.
My apologies! I haven't been around Wikia in weeks. That's the fault of Borderlands 2. It sucked me in and refused to let me go. I'm very very very close to getting bored enough with the game to quit - and do Wikia stuff again.
tardis:MediaWiki:Wikia.js is for some reason still on my followed pages list. So I noticed you moved the "change stylesheet" button around several times. Looks like you cannot find the right spot. The design is in goods hands with you, of course, but if you happen to need technical help let me know!
Oh :) Sorry, I've been flittin' around a bit lately so my mind isn't focussed on just the one thing. Yep, I was searching around for a better spot, and I was actually just about to send up the "Pecoes signal", but then I hit on a spot that fit the bill!
No it's a horrible spot as it turns out. I'm kinda looking around again, because my idea of prepending to .WikiaMainContent meant that the button undesirably appeared whilst editing.
I'm trying other spots now. Any ideas why putting it at div#title-meta would make the button visible, appear to click, but actually do nothing?
Never mind; I don't want to waste your time on that question. I found a spot that looks like .WikiaMainContent but doesn't appear when editing. .Grid-4 seems to be the sweet spot.
Yeah, but will new users find it there? I want it to be a bit intrusive so that people don't have to do too much work to find it. Remember, the whole point of the project is to help people who have a visual acuity difference. If they can't see the button, they may leave the site.
Because it wasn't actually next to the edit and talk buttons. After #WikiaPageHeader, the original location, is actually after the "redirected from" line. On our wiki, it's very likely that you'll get to a page via a redirect, so this placement meant that you'd see the change colours button in a variety of locations. In its current place, it's always in exactly the same place.
Hmmm, that's a very useful distinction. Thanks :) And thanks for the location. I like it a lot better where you suggested than .grid-4. Everything's in a neat row, particularly on the front page, where .grid-4 is a markedly different place than before the tally.
I was actually trying the tally thing before, but I had just tried .tally rather than the more specific #WikiaPageHeader .tally. While I expected .tally to mean that it would place the button anywhere there was a .tally, I got discouraged with the way the prependTo/appendTo worked, so I didn't move on to the more specific selector.
The key was obviously the difference between insertBefore and prependTo.
You know what I've found weirdest about this project is the way in which it's turned out much harder to find link/new/text colours for the white background than the dark. I mean the white was everyone said would be most readable, but I just can't quite crack the nut on getting a text, link and uncreated/new link colour that pass the contrast test against white and each other. I keep going back to it and every time I try, I just can't figure it out.
Non-wiki sites have it so easy, because they don't have to consider a "red link" color. All they need are a text color and a link color — which is easy to make contrast properly with the background and each other.
Not sure if it's any help, but when I wrote my Colors library, I discovered this color picker which works off the HCL color model and allows you to create a harmonic palette of colors. The whole thing is based on this research which goes a bit over my head, but the color picker itself is easy to use.
EDIT:
Be warned though, if you're anything like me, you'll toy with this thing for hours! :)
In question 5, I asked you about where i could find the fight animation for tien's justice you use in your mod, the one in this video, but i check the source files in your mod and I can't find the Stylesuperlist.2da to see the name of that animation.
And other question: Does your mod work with a spanish version of the game?
Hi, I happened to see this thread and I'm looking forward to reading your blog! A new help page on this topic would be great, if you would like to create one. It might be nice to have the help page set up first and then link to it from your post. I know you've done some excellent work on help pages in the past, but here's some guidelines just in case you need them.
To answer the question you asked: in general, admins can request that certain file types be allowed (or disallowed) on a specific wiki. However, like images, many typefaces are copyrighted and need to be licensed for use (even noncommercial) so making font files available for download on a public website has the potential to cause trouble for the uploader. This is probably not something we want to encourage.
Wow. I never thought that a general question would turn into a new code for Dev. Again, thanks for helping us out. I saw that you put in a user-defined category. Just wondering how to do that. Still can't thank you enough.
Hello again. Another admin brought up a question. Would it be possible for the categories to start on the "alpha" radio button? Maybe as a user-defined option? If not, don't worry about it. Thanks again!
Hello. First, I want to say thank you again for writting that javascript for the category situation. At most, I was hoping for a link to something that had already been written. You went beyond that and I am very appreciative.
I see that you put the code on your personal testing wiki. Would it be possible, and of course with your permission, for me to copy the code into our wiki's java page? I don't mean to sound unappreciative, but this would allow us to make minor alterations without popping up on your test wiki every now and then. Let me know what you think.
I didn't want to seem to forward or brash or like I was "using" you or the community. I've seen a lot of people come here, ask for something, and then just take off. I've tried to help out here, but a lot of what is asked is mainly css or js coding, and as is evident, I have next to zero knowledge about those. Again, thanks for all your help!
Sorry to keep coming to you. :) Something that just came to my mind: is there a way to hide this on certain categories. To expand on what was said in the forum page, we're only going to be using this on certain category pages. As such, having it display on pages like this one isn't really needed. I'd like to get into the coding aspect of Wikia, so if at all possible, could you point me in the right direction, say if somewhere else has coding similar that I could adapt? Let me know. Thanks again!
Sure. But that's the most work-intensive solution. You should try to find something that can be tested programmatically! I would imagine there's only really a problem with character names. So maybe all pages where this script needs to be used are subcategories of "People". Now that would be alot easier.
How about a hidden category? We already have Category:People, and some of those are the larger ones (i.e. Women, Men, Deceaced, etc.) that won't really "work" with the code.
Well. Adding a new hidden category to I-don't-know-how-many pages is a lot of work. More work than simply listing the page names inside the script. A hidden category would have the advantage though that - unlike the script - it can be edited by everybody.
I think that listing them in the code is what we're going to go with. Our contributors can ask to have additional categories added to the script. Depending on how the current discussion goes, we may only need it on about eleven categories, but that may expand. Thanks again!
Then add a check for the page name near the top of the script:
var pages =['page title 1','page title 2'// etc.];
$(function(){'use strict';if(mw.config.get('wgNamespaceNumber')!==14)return;if($.inArray(mw.conifg.conf('wgPageName'), pages)===-1)return;// *snip*}
Is this a complete replacement for the top function, or do I need to "blend" it into what is already there? Tried it a few times, but couldn't get it to work. Sorry. :(
I've also made the minor change of replacing wgPageName with wgPageTitle. The first one includes the "Category:" prefix. The latter doesn't. I assume you'll use this with categories only anyway.
Hello again. Two things real quick. First, is the above code (using the page title 1, page title 2, etc.) case-sensitive? Also, to let you know, I did contact Wikia and they said that they aren't willing to increase the limit of the category pages. They didn't really give me a reply on the JavaScript you mentioned, so I sent an e-mail back asking for some clarification.
Again, I can't thank you enough for your help. It has been really great!
Thanks, Kangaroopower, for the case-sensitive info. I know that Wikia doesn't support custom JS, but I was asking them something specific, detailed here.
Hello again. In regards to the new script, when would the heavy load occur? Could it be limited to just those categories that are over the 200 limit and/or just when a category over the 200 limit gets sorted? Thanks for your help!
Everything would load normally on pages where the category's content fits on the page. But on those pages where the next-links appear the entire category would have to be loaded on every pageload.
The category pages become rather long with this script. It might be a good idea to supply addional navigation. I added a tiny sidebar with letters on the left. It does nothing a this point. It's just a sketch for extra-navigation.
Replace everything you copypasted from my wiki with this:
importScriptPage('CatSort.js','pecoes');
EDIT: You should remove that page listing too. There are a bunch of errors in it. The major source of errors seem to be the apostrophes. JavaScript uses apostrophes to mark the beginning and the end of a string. That means inside of a string you cannot use them. Or at least not without adding an "escape" character in front of them: the backslash. So that's: \'
For the listing, even in the middle of a word, should I use the \. Also, are the apostrophes needed around each instance? I want to leave those in, due to the fact that only character categories (those listed) are where I would like the script to run. If a hidden category would be easier from a JS coding stand-point, I can add those to the categories. I know there are a lot. Almost 200 at last count.
Hang on! So the sorting should only apply to characters... Can I assume that all characters categories are in a hierarchy with one category at the top and that there's no overlap with other category hierarchies?
Adding a hidden category to so many pages sounds like something a script could do. Or a bot. I contacted CzechOut about this. In case you don't know him: He's very experienced with the pywikipediabot. If there's an easy way to do this, he can probably figure it out. Let's see if he has time and/or an idea...
And am I gettin' this right? The javascript will look for one of these hidden categories and then react to those categories conditionally? Is that basically the deal? Put up these hidden categories as a kind of conditional roadblock? Or trigger? Nooo – flag. Much better word.
If I'm in the basic ballpark, we're talking about a job that will take approximately 1600 seconds, given the 200 page estimate you put forward, so long as the bot can apply the hidden category to every page within another category. If, however, this is a situationn where some of the pages within a category get the hidden cat, and some do not, then we're talking about manual operation of the bot — or — the additional time needed to type up/cut-n-paste a list of all the pages onto which this cat needs to be placed. So basically, you're talking 25 minutes one way, about an hour the other.
Category:Accepted
Category:Advocates
Category:Ajah Heads
Category:Aldeshar (people)
Category:Altara (people)
Category:Amadicia (people)
Category:Amayar (people)
Category:Amyrlin Seats
Category:Andor (people)
Category:Apprentices
Category:Arad Doman (people)
Category:Arafel (people)
Category:Aramaelle (people)
Category:Aridhol (people)
Category:Artists
Category:Asha'man (rank)
Category:Assistants
Category:Atha'an Miere (people)
Category:Attendants
Category:Authors
Category:Band of the Red Hand
Category:Bankers
Category:Barbers
Category:Bellfounders
Category:Black Ajah
Category:Blue Ajah
Category:Bootmakers
Category:Borderlands (people)
Category:Bouncers
Category:Brickmasons
Category:Brown Ajah
Category:Cairhien (people)
Category:Cargomasters
Category:Carpenters
Category:Cha Faile
Category:Channelers
Category:Children of the Light
Category:Clerks
Category:Cooks
Category:Coopers
Category:Council of Merchants
Category:Council of Nine
Category:Counsels of Far Madding
Category:Cutpurses
Category:Da'covale
Category:Dal Calain (people)
Category:Damane
Category:Darkfriends
Category:Darmovan (people)
Category:Deathwatch Guards
Category:Deceased
Category:Deckmistresses
Category:Dedicated
Category:Dockmasters
Category:Dragonsworn
Category:Elaida a'Roihan's White Tower
Category:Empresses
Category:Entertainers
Category:Essenia (people)
Category:Ever Victorious Army
Category:Far Madding (people)
Category:Farmers
Category:Farriers
Category:Ferrymasters
Category:First Twelve of the Atha'an Miere
Category:Firsts of Mayene
Category:Five Great Captains
Category:Fletchers
Category:Footmen
Category:Foreseen people
Category:Gatekeepers
Category:Generals
Category:Ghealdan (people)
Category:Gleemen
Category:Gray Ajah
Category:Green Ajah
Category:Guards
Category:Head servants
Category:Healers
Category:Heroes of the Horn
Category:High Nobility of Tear
Category:Historians
Category:Historical
Category:Hunters of the Horn
Category:Illian (people)
Category:Illuminators
Category:Innkeepers
Category:Inquisitors
Category:Inventors
Category:Kandor (people)
Category:Keepers of the Chronicles
Category:Kings
Category:Kinswomen
Category:Ladies
Category:Lensmakers
Category:Librarians
Category:Living as of ACOS
Category:Living as of AMOL
Category:Living as of CCG
Category:Living as of COT
Category:Living as of GUIDE
Category:Living as of KOD
Category:Living as of LOC
Category:Living as of NS
Category:Living as of TDR
Category:Living as of TEOTW
Category:Living as of TFOH
Category:Living as of TGH
Category:Living as of TGS
Category:Living as of TOM
Category:Living as of TPOD
Category:Living as of TSASG
Category:Living as of TSR
Category:Living as of WH
Category:Local Government
Category:Logain's followers
Category:Lord Captain Commanders
Category:Lords
Category:Maids
Category:Malkier (people)
Category:Manetheren (people)
Category:Mapmakers
Category:Masenashar (people)
Category:Masters of the Blades
Category:Mayene (people)
Category:Men
Category:Mercenaries
Category:Merchants
Category:Midwives
Category:Millers
Category:Mistresses of Novices
Category:Mistresses of the Ships
Category:Morat'rakens
Category:Murandy (people)
Category:Novices
Category:Panarchs
Category:Peddlers
Category:Quartermasters
Category:Queens
Category:Queen's Guards
Category:Rebel Aes Sedai
Category:Red Ajah
Category:Redarms
Category:Rulers
Category:Safer (people)
Category:Sailmistresses
Category:Sailors
Category:Saldaea (people)
Category:Scholars
Category:Seamstresses
Category:Seanchan (people)
Category:Seanchan animal handlers
Category:Secretaries
Category:Seekers
Category:Seekers for Truth
Category:Servants
Category:Serving girls
Category:Shandalle (people)
Category:Shienar (people)
Category:Shiota (people)
Category:Ship captains
Category:Sitters
Category:Smiths
Category:So'jhin
Category:Soldier (Asha'man)
Category:Soldiers
Category:Stablemen
Category:Sul'dam
Category:Swordmasters
Category:Taim's cronies
Category:Talmour (people)
Category:Tar Valon (people)
Category:Tarabon (people)
Category:Ta'veren
Category:Tavernkeepers
Category:Tear (people)
Category:Thatchers
Category:The Blood
Category:Thief-catchers
Category:Thugs
Category:Treesingers
Category:Tuatha'an (people)
Category:Two Rivers (people)
Category:Unaligned sisters
Category:Unknown affiliation
Category:Unknown Ajah
Category:Unknown gender
Category:Unknown nationality
Category:Unknown status
Category:Village Councilors
Category:Warders
Category:Wavemistresses
Category:Weavers
Category:White Ajah
Category:Wilders
Category:Windfinders
Category:Wolfbrothers
Category:Women
Category:Yellow Ajah
Category:Younglings
Wait, are these pages the members of a single category, or several whole categories? Or are they just pages that are plucked from several categories, but they don't make up any whole category?
If it's a whole category, or several whole categories, please give me those category names
If this is a list of seleted pages from categories, please give me the list without a prepending asterisk, but with a single carriage return after each name.
Thanks :)
And, I'm sorry, but what wiki are we talking about again?
The above list is a list of categories. These categories will all need to be added to the Sort option categories category. This way, the script that Pecoes will only run on those selected categories. I edited the above message for better clarification.
Yeah, sorry about that. With the way our wiki is set up, we have characters kinda all over the place; under their nationality, occupation, affiliation, etc. But, overall it works for us. :)
Alright, before I do this for ya, I just want to be super clear about what I'm doing. So forgive me if this awfully basic. I'm not trying to insult your intelligence.
Category:Dogs. This is where Pecoes' JS will run. You can see it in action here. Scroll down a little and you'll see two radio buttons that allow dual-sorting.
Nope, [Template fetch failed for http://community.wikia.com/wiki/Template:c:wot:category:Sort_option_categories?action=render] will be the hidden category that will be added to the above list.
Okay, now I'm super confused. I just added the hidden category to that category page and ... nothing changed. What is the supposed effect of this category I'm adding?
Once Pecoes updates the code, the JS will only run on the categories in "Sort option categories" You won't see anything change. What will eventually happen is other categories not listed, categories about nations, places, etc., will not show the dual-sort, but categories listed, categories that have characters (people) in them will show the dual-sort.
Right now, the JS runs on all categories, which isn't needed. Just the character categories listed above.
Sorry, but I really don't understand what's going on here. Both w:c:wot:category:women and w:c:wot:category:men are behaving in the same way, even though women is not in the category and men is. Both have the sorting buttons, and both sets of sorting buttons function. So where does the hidden category come in?
Okay, gotcha. So now the question is how will using the bot be faster than manual editing, since you're talking about category pages and not articles? Are these categories in some kind of structure? Like do they all lead to some parent category? Or do they at least lead to a few common parent categories?
Not knowing how bots work, I'm not sure. If manual editing would be faster, that is fine. I (maybe mistakenly) thought that you could "input" a list into the bot and say "add this to these pages." If that isn't the case, then I'm sorry to have taken your time and I can make the changes.
Just looking at the nature of the js magic you're trying to sprinkle here, is it safe to say that all of the above categories are subcategories of w:c:wot:category:people? See, using a bot is all about finding some kind of pattern in category tree. This is the first time I've encountered your wiki or even your topic, so I'm really not sure what I'm lookin' at. I've got to have some sort of category tree to aim for here.
Mainphramephreak wrote:
P.S. How does that {{w:c:wot}} template work. Can't figure it out without seeing the code. :)
It's not a template, per se. It's just normal interwiki linking. You can link to any page anywhere on the Wikia network by typing [[w:c:wikiname:namespace (if not in main):page name]].
Most of them are listed there, but some of the subcategories of People wouldn't be included. For example, Aiel and Ogier don't have last names, so the dual-sort wouldn't be needed.
If the bot is going to be a hassle to set up, I can add them manually. Again, sorry about all this.
P.S. Thanks for the info. I thought it was a template and not a link.
Okay, bot is now running on just the list of category pages you provided. If there are erros in that list, obviously the bot won't know about them. Should be done in about 25 more minutes, cause I'm averaging closer to 9 seconds/change not a more usual 8. Dunno why.
Anyway, because this is a one-time-only thing, my bot isn't flagged as a bot on your wiki, meaning that all edits will appear to be done by a normal user. This is typically inadvisable, simply because I'm going to dominate your recent changes list for a few minutes.
For Pecoes, who wanted to know method here, all you do is take the list of full pagenames he provided, throw 'em into a text editor, convert 'em to plain text, and save the file. (Make sure the names are either on new lines or enclosed in brackets.) Then you just run category.py like so:
And when prompted for the new category name, give it. Easy.
The only reason there was a bit of argy-bargy over the category tree is that I loathe working from files when it comes to the category tree. There can always be mistakes in a file, but the category tree is the category tree is the category tree, amen. And running any bot using your category tree shows weaknesses in your category tree — unexpected bits of recursion, rabbit holes that the bot falls into, etc. If you do it all by lists, you're basically giving up on your category tree, and putting the list ahead of the wiki itself.
The notion that one should have an excel file to understand the category tree is frightening to me, because, yanno, your readers don't have an excel file. They should be able to progress logically through categories, just like a bot does.
Pecoes wrote:
Say, CzechOut: Do you think it would be easier to use AWB? I'm not an AWB expert either but my understanding is that AWB is good at processing lists.
Dunno anything about AWB, because it's Windows-only. I've heard here and there that it's not as powerful as pywikipedia, though. There was never any doubt that pywikipedia could handle this super-simple task. There was just a question of which path to take :)
Blah. Just noticed that I didn't close one of my links in the edit summary, so none of the links work anywhere in the summary. Sorry about that. Too late to fix now. We're coming up on the end, now: w:c:wot:category:Unknown status in view.
Thank you so much CzechOut! Looking through, everything looks in order. And the Excel sheet was just so I could figure out which ones needed the JS and get that list to you. Don't worry about the RC. We can deal with that. :) Can't thank you enough for this!
@CzechOut: It doesn't override the defaultkey-sorting, no. It adds a second table that's sorted differently. You can switch between the two tables with the radio buttons.
The other thing the script does: If a category is so long that the MediaWiki software splits it over several pages, my script will nix those "previous 200"/"next 200" links and load the entire category.
@Mainphramephreak: What about that little navigation bar at the side? It's not finished yet. Do you think it would be useful?
If it is not too much trouble, then yes, the navigation bar is a great idea. Also, would it be too much hassle to move the radio buttons to the right of the title labels?
Yeah, this is a pretty cool little project. I might well steal it. I haven't even looked at the js, but could it be altered easily enough to additionally omit precedent articles — that is, a, an and the? And how does it handle names that are more than two unhyphenated words long? How would it deal with "Eve Marie Saint" or "Juan Francisco de Madrid" or "Johnny Macintosh Appleseed", where Macintosh isn't the middle name but the first of two unhyphenated last names?
The sorting is currently rather primitive. It relies on the first character. Removing articles at the beginning of the name is a good idea. I'll add that.
Handling names like "Eve Marie Saint" is better done by setting a sortkey.
Heh, cool :) One more thing for dev :) Yeah, this thing is like a grownup version of tardis:template:NameSort and, since you're adding article stripping, tardis:template:TitleSort. The thing that makes me want to adopt it most is the idea of stripping away the next 200/prev200 thing. I hate having to flip through multiple pages like that.
Oh, if you're going to put it on dev, any chance of making the category name a user-modifiable job? "Sort option categories" isn't really inline with the kind of style that we use at tardis. We'd tend to be much more literal, like "categories that use javascript sorting".
Thanks for puttin' this at dev. Just wondering, though — is it supposed to be one column for first name sorting and three columns for last-name sorting? See tardis:Category:20th century individuals for a demonstration of the effect.
Weird. It doesn't do that 1-column business at all categories. tardis:category:individual Trions is three columns each way. And everything is fine at tardis:category:Individual humans, which is larger than individual Trions but smaller than 20th century individuals.
Say CzechOut are you indeed Czech? I'm asking because there's a character whose last name starts with a Č on the example you linked to above. Where do I file that character? Under C? Or after Z as it is now?
Yeah we have a lot of pages with non-English characters. I'm honestly not sure what the convention is when you're trying to figure out how to alphabetise Czech letters in English, but In Czech, C comes before Č. (In fact, all non-accented letters come before their haček-ed versions. It's also N before Ñ in Spanish, too. I think that may be the general way it's handled in other languages using a Roman alphabet. Lemme do a quick survey to see.
Yeah, all I can do is leave you with this: wikipedia:Alphabetical order#Language-specific conventions. I'm not sure how you would want to handle all these rules, or if you would just want to kinda not deal with it. Maybe there's something in the MediaWiki manual that explains the default settings for other languages, and you could sorta piggyback on that.
I can only say that the way I think we'd ideally handle it at tardis is to go un-accented first, accented later. But I don't know what would be the order of precedence amongst those accented cases. Does Č come before Ç, for example? I dunno.
But I can tell you that our particular wiki would have a need for Welsh alphabetisation, since Doctor Who is made in Wales and we have a metric ton of articles about behind the scenes personnel that are not currently being alphabetised properly.
Hmm, I think the truth is that you probably would never have a case of a category page with so many accented letters that precedence would matter so awfully much. It's probably enough to just pick an order of precedence amongst all the Cs and Es and As and leave it at that. The chances of causing actual offense to someone is probably really small.
You know what, it's not gonna work to have Welsh rules is it. CH, PH, RH, TH and LL are all combinations that occur in English and/or Spanish and are not considered single letters in those languages. I suppose you could get the script to recognise a template/category name like {{welsh}} or category:welsh names so that it would then know how to sort that particular page.
This is getting to be a bit complex, huh? Please don't take any of this stuff as a pressurising feature request. It's a good script as it is. But if you're actually interested in the challenge of making it accept alphabetisation of characters in other languages, then by all means, have at it. We'd definitely use that additional functionality at Tardis. But, quite obviously, it's Christmas :)
This is terrible! I would have to write an entire library for sorting to handle all those world-wide exceptions and exceptions of exceptions! I don't think I will though. That would be taking it too far. :)
Oh, btw: My code does ignore articles while sorting now. When you look for "The Boss" on w:c:tardis:Category:20th_century_individuals, you will find him under "B" - no matter whether you sort by first or last name.
CzechOut wrote: This is getting to be a bit complex, huh? Please don't take any of this stuff as a pressurising feature request. It's a good script as it is. But if you're actually interested in the challenge of making it accept alphabetisation of characters in other languages, then by all means, have at it. We'd definitely use that additional functionality at Tardis. But, quite obviously, it's Christmas :)
Puhleeze! That stuff is no challenge. It's just sensationally tedious! :)
That would be grinding. Ideally programming is the opposite of grinding.
Pecoes wrote:
Oh, btw: My code does ignore articles while sorting now. When you look for "The Boss" on w:c:tardis:Category:20th_century_individuals, you will find him under "B" - no matter whether you sort by first or last name.
Sweet :) Thanks for that. When you run a wiki about a guy called "the Doctor" who comes from a race of people who love to title themselves with the word "the", you're gonna need that kinda sorting assistance.
In several languages the rules have changed over time, and so older dictionaries may use a different order than modern ones. Furthermore, collation may depend on use. For example, German dictionaries and telephone directories use different approaches.
Maybe you should just chose case-insensitive ASCIIbetical order, and throw in a little Welsh love at the end. Welsh love at the end? Now that's what I call holiday cheer!
Hi Pecoes, I wanted to give you a heads up about the change happening next week for the Community Central Support Forums. See the notice posted here. Wikia appreciates all of the help that you provide to users in the Forum, and we look forward to seeing your continued expert assistance after the switch. The new setup will have four Support boards instead of two, which should help users with questions better determine where to post their thread, and will allow users with answers to more easily find the questions in their area of specialization. Thanks, and let me know if you have any questions!
