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Details about the Beta release of VisualEditor

  • This thread has further information about the beta release of VisualEditor on Wikia, as announced on the staff blog. This new editor was developed in partnership with the Wikimedia Foundation, and here at Wikia we've been working on our implementation for some time. You can see it in action on the Community Test Wikia and details about the beta release are below.

    We are looking forward to feedback from the community over the next few months, as we continue to release updates and additional functionality. So thanks in advance!

    How To Use It

    VisualEditor can be accessed in two ways:

    1. Edit an existing article by simply clicking the "Edit" button
    2. Create a new article by typing in the web address of a nonexistent page and then clicking the "Create" button.

    (You'll see that both of these methods employ the ?veaction=edit URL parameter)

    The transition from the reading view to the editing view is very quick and smooth, which is the exciting part! VisualEditor is meant to be a truly WYSIWYG experience, showing you what the article layout will really look like. No more green puzzle pieces and other odd placeholders like you get in Wikia's current visual editing mode.

    This release allows for editing of article text, image captions, templates, categories and references. Starting on October 16, it is also possible to insert images or videos that are already uploaded to the site. To do things like upload images/videos and create new templates or tables, you'll still need to use the "classic" Wikia editing experience. But we'll be adding more functionality soon! VisualEditor is only active for the main namespace at this time. VisualEditor is only available in the Wikia skin.

    You can still access the standard Wikia editor using the "Classic editor" option on the "Edit" drop menu. You'll have the "source" and "visual" tabs there. If you have visual editing disabled in your user preferences, you'll only see the source option in the Classic editor.

    Using VisualEditor, you can:

    • See Spell Check in action!
    • Edit image captions by selecting an image and clicking the image icon VE-MediaIcon in the upper right
    • Add a new template using the More>Transclusion option on the Toolbar
    • Edit an existing template by selecting it and using the transclusion icon VE-TransclusionIcon in the upper right
    • Edit categories by clicking the Page Settings button in the toolbar: VE-PageSettingsButton
    • Search the community for existing images and videos and insert one or more into the article, using the Add Media button in the toolbar: VE-AddMediaButton
    • Resize and move images already present in the article by selecting the image and using your mouse
    • Add references by choosing the References option on the More menu in the toolbar.
    • Edit existing references by selecting the references section and clicking the references icon VE-ReferenceIcon in the upper right

    What it doesn't do yet

    In the future we'll be adding more features as our engineers complete work on them. We'll be sure to update you as these are added. These include:

    • Switching to source mode (and back) during your edit
    • Uploading new images and adding new videos to the site
    • Differentiating between images and videos in media search results
    • Previewing a video before inserting it into the article
    • Creating and modifying galleries
    • Creating and modifying tables
    • More streamlined addition of templates
    • More streamlined editing of template content
    • Using basic wikitext markup (such as double brackets and apostrophes)
    • Editing a page using the Contribute drop-down menu
    • Adding a new page with VisualEditor from Special:CreatePage (and the Contribute drop-down menu)
    • Adding a new page with VisualEditor from a redlink
    • Improved transition between reading and editing; making the non-artcile content (right rail, etc.) less distracting

    Also note that any element that you can't modify using VisualEditor will be obscured with a striped overlay and a tooltip stating that it's not editable.

    What we want to know

    While we expect that the VisualEditor will be useful for all kinds of users, the target audience for this feature is newer users, and those who are not that experienced with wikitext. Since many of these users might not be giving us direct feedback, we request that more seasoned users also keep the "new user experience" in mind when providing feedback. We're confident that VisualEditor will be useful for experience users as well, especially once the full feature set is available. So we're very interested in feedback from that perspective, too. Please feel free to reply on this thread with your thoughts and ideas. Also check out the this list of known issues on Community Test if you encounter any bugs, and report anything that you don't already see listed!

    Questions to keep in mind:

    • Is the editing experience intuitive and straightforward?
    • Will the editing experience promote better quality edits from newer users?
    • Will newer users make fewer mistakes than they do in the current editor?
    • Will newer users make different mistakes than they do in the current editor?

    We hope that you'll enjoy experimenting with this new feature. However, if you'd like to disable it in your own preferences, you can do so using the Beta Preferences section on Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-editing.

    Update, October 16: Additional text has been added above, and on the Help page, to reflect today's release of media insertion functionality.

    Update, December 6: The new VisualEditor is now available for admins to enable via WikiFeatures. The notes above are no longer current, please see Help:VisualEditor for the most current details.

      Loading editor
    • I posted these comments on the blog entry, before I saw this thread.

      • This seems very awkward with adding Templates. They're available under Transclusion, which I think most casual editors won't catch. In addition, Visual mode would at least give hints about what the parameters were. There's no such guidance here.
      • I also miss the ability to add wikitext inline. It is so natural to want to add link brackets to an article name that I know, and that operation now takes three extra steps. Even in Visual mode, that roundtrip addition was "fluid" (ironic).

      Now that I've read this entry, I wanted to clarify my feedback with both new editors and experienced ones in mind.

      I think the new editor makes a learning curve for new users that WANT to get involved very difficult, because it abstracts the code much more than the current visual editor. Most of the "mistakes" I see on the wiki I edit the most are from span copypasta leftovers. They're not making mistakes that would be rectified or mitigated by this project, as I see it. It's a bit like going from finger paints (the new editor) to acrylics (source editing) as opposed to crayons (the current visual editor); there are some basic skills that would be completely missed in the current implementation.

      For slightly more experienced editors, it forces them to either ignore that they know "a little wikitext" or go whole hog into Source mode. There has to be a middle ground solution.

      For very experienced editors: if they aren't primarily using Source mode or are using the current Visual mode (occasionally or regularly), this new tool will be torture.

      If one of the purposes of quality control is cleaner source, could that not be accomplished by a Tidy function? Or perhaps a parser at submission that warns "There is an unclosed ]] tag in what you just wrote. The block of problem text has been highlighted.". If we experienced editors want to help newer users to make fewer mistakes, more information has to be presented instead of truncating the flexibility that already exists. Maybe "more intuitive" is not the better solution.

      I know this tool isn't ready for prime time as is. I know it has a lot to grow on and is made with great hopes. Perhaps my newbie user experience is atypical. Maybe I just don't know what kind of errors others are experiencing that makes this tool necessary.

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    • An URL parameter for disabling/enabling the VE would be nice. (ie, please keep &useeditor=…)

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    • Cool!

        Loading editor
    • Will there be a setting so that when I click edit, it will default to source editor.

      By the way, the new VisualEditor is definitely an improvement and new users will find it really helpful.

      I for one will not be using it however, as source editor gives you more flexibility with wikitext.

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    • DanBing wrote: Will there be a setting so that when I click edit, it will default to source editor.

      There already is.

        Loading editor
    • The main thing I don't like about this new editor is it's incompatibility with wikitext. That was one thing the RTE got right, being able to change wikitext to code on publishing. I wouldn't want this thing on any wiki I edit until it can accept wikitext because it is so much easier to explain to people how to do things like add maintenance templates if you can just give them the "code" to copy/paste rather than having to explain about going into the different menus etc. Also, I am struggling to work the hyperlink feature on the new editor, and think it would be good to still be able to use [[square brackets]] for linking.

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    • FishTank wrote:
      I posted these comments on the blog entry, before I saw this thread.

      • This seems very awkward with adding Templates. They're available under Transclusion, which I think most casual editors won't catch. In addition, Visual mode would at least give hints about what the parameters were. There's no such guidance here.
      • I also miss the ability to add wikitext inline. It is so natural to want to add link brackets to an article name that I know, and that operation now takes three extra steps. Even in Visual mode, that roundtrip addition was "fluid" (ironic).

      Thanks for the comments! In general, and as you already acknowledged, it's important to note that this is the first stage of the Beta release and there's lots more coming. Regarding templates, we'll be doing further work on the template editor, it's just basic support at the moment. And we'll be adding in wikitext support as well.

      We are addressing (or plan to address) some of the issues reported in the past, around issues caused by the current RTE. We are confident that this tool can be both a helpful starting point for future wikitext users and an effective way to contribute in and of itself. In other words, it can be the "middle ground solution" that you mention in your further notes. I look forward to hearing what you think as things proceed!

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    • Imamadmad wrote:
      The main thing I don't like about this new editor is it's incompatibility with wikitext. That was one thing the RTE got right, being able to change wikitext to code on publishing. I wouldn't want this thing on any wiki I edit until it can accept wikitext because it is so much easier to explain to people how to do things like add maintenance templates if you can just give them the "code" to copy/paste rather than having to explain about going into the different menus etc. Also, I am struggling to work the hyperlink feature on the new editor, and think it would be good to still be able to use [[square brackets]] for linking.

      Thanks! As has been noted elsewhere, wikitext support is coming, just down the road a bit.

        Loading editor
    • FishTank wrote:
      I posted these comments on the blog entry, before I saw this thread.

      • This seems very awkward with adding Templates. They're available under Transclusion, which I think most casual editors won't catch. In addition, Visual mode would at least give hints about what the parameters were. There's no such guidance here.
      • I also miss the ability to add wikitext inline. It is so natural to want to add link brackets to an article name that I know, and that operation now takes three extra steps. Even in Visual mode, that roundtrip addition was "fluid" (ironic).

      Now that I've read this entry, I wanted to clarify my feedback with both new editors and experienced ones in mind.

      I think the new editor makes a learning curve for new users that WANT to get involved very difficult, because it abstracts the code much more than the current visual editor. Most of the "mistakes" I see on the wiki I edit the most are from span copypasta leftovers. They're not making mistakes that would be rectified or mitigated by this project, as I see it. It's a bit like going from finger paints (the new editor) to acrylics (source editing) as opposed to crayons (the current visual editor); there are some basic skills that would be completely missed in the current implementation.

      For slightly more experienced editors, it forces them to either ignore that they know "a little wikitext" or go whole hog into Source mode. There has to be a middle ground solution.

      For very experienced editors: if they aren't primarily using Source mode or are using the current Visual mode (occasionally or regularly), this new tool will be torture.

      If one of the purposes of quality control is cleaner source, could that not be accomplished by a Tidy function? Or perhaps a parser at submission that warns "There is an unclosed ]] tag in what you just wrote. The block of problem text has been highlighted.". If we experienced editors want to help newer users to make fewer mistakes, more information has to be presented instead of truncating the flexibility that already exists. Maybe "more intuitive" is not the better solution.

      I know this tool isn't ready for prime time as is. I know it has a lot to grow on and is made with great hopes. Perhaps my newbie user experience is atypical. Maybe I just don't know what kind of errors others are experiencing that makes this tool necessary.

      Emboldened point #1: I tend to see too much white-space being added too. This is a consequence of the older visual editor not being a WYSIWYG. There's hope for VisualEditor yet in this department... if Wikia is wise.

      Emboldened point #2: (a) Tidy's not a bad idea. Personally, I would build it with a Lightbox (pop up) that makes a list of all the mistakes and shows their fix. Then users would hit "continue". Otherwise even I would not have bothered to learn Wikitext. (b) That's better; let the user makes the changes, because they might think of something else to do. I would actually make the parser live, albeit with a 1000ms delay to avoid pissing people off who haven't closed [[their brackets]]. (IOW, just a small cross in the left margin that tooltips.)

      Emboldened point #3: I was horrified the first time I saw simple Wikitext—morbid fascination drove me to keep peeking at what I was *really* doing. So the switch function has to be as fluid as the old visual editor was. (Perhaps quicker... loads, no pun intended, quicker.)

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    • PedroM wrote:
      An URL parameter for disabling/enabling the VE would be nice.

      Duh! There is! veaction=edit vs. action=edit

      Here's an interesting question, Wikia, hopefully anyway: Will VisualEditor keep its
      ?veaction=edit
      or will it eventually use
      ?action=edit
      ? I assume it will, or else you are going to make us rewrite all our templates (which won't happen)?
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    • BertH wrote:

      What it doesn't do yetEdit

      In the future we'll be adding more features as our engineers complete work on them. We'll be sure to update you as these are added. These include:
      [...]

      • Using basic wikitext markup (link double brackets and apostrophes)
      • Adding a new page with VisualEditor from a redlink
      • Improved transition between reading and editing; making the non-artcile content (right rail, etc.) less distracting

      Also note that any element that you can't modify using VisualEditor will be obscured with a striped overlay and a tooltip stating that it's not editable.
      [...]

      • I find this somewhat disturbing. The old visual editor "supported" all(?) Wikitext chucked into the edit form, it just couldn't edit what was already there. Why this can VisualEditor not do? Hmm?
      • I believe this answers my question above, in all likelihood. It better anyway. I don't want all redlinks becoming
        ?veaction=edit&redlink=1
        !
      • Improve how, exactly? I mean, I thought the whole point was to make this editing experience as close as possible to WYSIWYG? Or are you going to... *chuckles* ... remove the lazy loading on the sidebar for editing?
        Loading editor
    • Starfleet Academy wrote:
      • I find this somewhat disturbing. The old visual editor "supported" all(?) Wikitext chucked into the edit form, it just couldn't edit what was already there. Why this can VisualEditor not do? Hmm?

      I edited the text in the post slightly. "link double brackets and apostrophes" was a typo (should have been "like", though "link" still made sense, funnily) and as been changed to "such as double brackets and apostrophes". Wikitext support was not part of the collaborative work that's brought us to this point, and so Wikia needs to sort out the details of how that will be implemented. More to come in that area.

      • I believe this answers my question above, in all likelihood. It better anyway. I don't want all redlinks becoming
        ?veaction=edit&redlink=1
        !

      We expect to eventually return the state where ?action=edit will open your preferred editor, but with the beta release there will be a period where the other parameter is needed.

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    • With today's code release, basic functionality for inserting existing media (images and videos) has been added. I've added some information to the initial thread post to reflect that and the Help page has also been updated. We're focusing on building out this media tool right now, and we'll be looking forward to your feedback on that as we continue to release updates.

        Loading editor
    • Looks like this removed the left margin on the content of the toolbar at the bottom of the page. Bug or intentional?

        Loading editor
    • No, it appears to be a quick fix. It must have broken something, but I can't think what a 100% value could break...

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    • @BertH:

      • I make that typo the other way around. :)
      • Even though my post was rather ambiguous and seemed to refer internally to the current message when I didn't, you've answered my question. That begs another question, however, are you going to discontinue the source editor? That would be Wikia's logic wouldn't it? ?action=edit would open a source mode equivalent of VisualEditor?

      New update: I love the loading GIF. :D

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    • Starfleet Academy wrote:

      That begs another question, however, are you going to discontinue the source editor? 

      There are no plans to discontinue the source editor, this project is about improving the WYSIWYG editing experience.

        Loading editor
    • So you would have two text editors? One as a tab of VisualEditor, and one for those that disable VE (aka what we've already got)?

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    • The VE will replace the RTE, simple as that.

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    • Feedback from ZH community.. One user asked if we could include some "formula" or "music scores" in the "Visual Editor".. Some formula symbols look weird (too big or too small), like this one:

      公式

      and if we could allow them to put "music scores" easily when they edit. So far no "music" symbols have been allowed to use, like this one:
      简谱
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    • @PedroM: How 'bout you just read my post and think about it. No? Meh.

        Loading editor
    • Yes, clearly I haven't done just that.

        Loading editor
    • Cal-Boy wrote: Feedback from ZH community.. One user asked if we could include some "formula" or "music scores" in the "Visual Editor".. Some formula symbols look weird (too big or too small), like this one:

      公式

      and if we could allow them to put "music scores" easily when they edit. So far no "music" symbols have been allowed to use, like this one:
      简谱

      Being able to write scores of music in the VE would be a plus. And by this I mean Treble, Bass, and Alto clef as well as accidentals, key signatures, 32nd notes, dotted notes, crescendos, accents, repeats, and slurs/ties.

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    • @PedroM:

      I'll try again to explain this: VisualEditor is planned to be switchable between visual and source modes. That implies that the only text editor (source editor) will be a tab of VisualEditor. Now, with one's preferences set in such a way as to disable VisualEditor, my question is whether that will open the text editor we have currently or will it open a "tab" of VisualEditor? Or in other words, will the source only option open a new page or just be a source version of VisualEditor's embedded look?

      I have no idea why you're so hostile, this is a perfectly legitimate question which is *not* answered by #1.

        Loading editor
    • There already is a preference to disable the VE, just try it out.

        Loading editor
    • That's a really good idea, but for two reasons: (a) It's in beta currently so there's no guarantee it will stay however it appears with VisualEditor disabled, and (b) that the entirety of Wikia has just broken. Seriously! Goodbye JavaScript, goodbye CSS. Um... I'm actually replying here without reloading the page. It's a good thing I opened another tab to nuke Wikia with. Oh, the joy. Um... I'll try again in a bit... But yeah, I hadn't thought of that, so thanks. :)

        Loading editor
    • That above was me, but I had logged out elsewhere to see whether it affected IPs too. Clearly it does. I forgot to log back in. I hate that... *silent scream*

        Loading editor
    • Excellent. Wikia has recovered from the apocalypse, and I did turn it off but, like I thought, it's a useless test until they make VE switchable between visual and source mode. However, I'd like to brace for the impact of loosing a dedicated text editor...

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    • Starfleet: Don't panic! While we have yet to work out the final design/interaction specifics of accessing source editing within VisualEditor (both with and without the "visual" preference enabled), we'll be talking more about this soon. It's definitely something we're considering carefully.

        Loading editor
    • Wait, what? Why would you even change the MediaWiki wikitext editor?

        Loading editor
    • If it's any condolence you could always make your own source editor :P

      Although it won't come to that, it's still fun doing it. xD

        Loading editor
    • BertH wrote:
      Starfleet: Don't panic! While we have yet to work out the final design/interaction specifics of accessing source editing within VisualEditor (both with and without the "visual" preference enabled), we'll be talking more about this soon. It's definitely something we're considering carefully.

      Holy Wuuthrad! I am certainly panicking now! This is exactly what I thought would happen: Wikia creates this new toy and then tacks source editing onto the end of it. For those that disable VE, we don't need anything more than the old MediaWiki editor.

      @Platinum: Forget that; I wouldn't know where to start. However, I wonder if I could port MonoBook's editor to Oasis... :D It would be JS, but still more workable than anything Wikia can (un)think up.

        Loading editor
    • ^I'll be disabling VE, and I hope we still get a good source editing experience.

        Loading editor
    • Starfleet Academy wrote:

      BertH wrote:
      Starfleet: Don't panic! While we have yet to work out the final design/interaction specifics of accessing source editing within VisualEditor (both with and without the "visual" preference enabled), we'll be talking more about this soon. It's definitely something we're considering carefully.

      Holy Wuuthrad! I am certainly panicking now! This is exactly what I thought would happen: Wikia creates this new toy and then tacks source editing onto the end of it. For those that disable VE, we don't need anything more than the old MediaWiki editor.

      @Platinum: Forget that; I wouldn't know where to start. However, I wonder if I could port MonoBook's editor to Oasis... :D It would be JS, but still more workable than anything Wikia can (un)think up.

      Just replace the page with a textarea that is pre filled with the page content. Then submit it via API.

        Loading editor
    • I'd be fine until the submitting part... that's what I'd screw up. :P For now, I'll just live in hope that Wikia does actually "consider this carefully".

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    • I really would like to let the source editor be default for my wikia, since it may very often involve some complex mathematical formatting.

      Would such a thing be possible to do as a preference (for the whole wiki, not just myself, that would be very easy), or would that mean Special:Contacting Wikia? .

        Loading editor
    • Dimension10 wrote:
      I really would like to let the source editor be default for my wikia, since it may very often involve some complex mathematical formatting.

      Would such a thing be possible to do as a preference (for the whole wiki, not just myself, that would be very easy), or would that mean Special:Contacting Wikia? .

      Yes, that request needs to come in via Special:Contact

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    • PedroM wrote:

      DanBing wrote: Will there be a setting so that when I click edit, it will default to source editor.

      There already is.

      I think what DanBing was asking for was a way to have the VisualEditor enabled, but have it default to the Source tab when entered. I don't think there is a setting for this.

      Also, PedroM, unless you have some inside knowledge of Wikia's implementation plans (which I doubt you do), your pronouncements have low credibility.

        Loading editor
    • Currently my biggest problem with the current VisualEditor is when I click the little puzzle piece for template, I usually get something like this:

      XCoded element
      Please switch to source mode to edit!

      <onlyinclude>{{{{{tpl|tooltip}}}
      |arg={{{arg|}}}
      |mode={{{mode|}}}
      |icon=inv_fabric_windwool
      |stack=20
      |quality=common
      |name=Windwool Cloth
      |ilvl=86
      |sell={{cost||17|50}}
      }}</onlyinclude>

      delete
        Loading editor
    • Fandyllic wrote:

      PedroM wrote:

      DanBing wrote: Will there be a setting so that when I click edit, it will default to source editor.

      There already is.

      I think what DanBing was asking for was a way to have the VisualEditor enabled, but have it default to the Source tab when entered. I don't think there is a setting for this.

      Also, PedroM, unless you have some inside knowledge of Wikia's implementation plans (which I doubt you do), your pronouncements have low credibility.

      Thanks for clarifying this - that's what I meant, sorry for not being clear. Yes - I was wondering is there will be a setting to default to source editor, but still be able to switch to visual editor?

        Loading editor
    • Put this in your personal js. Ask staff if it would be allowed site-wide:

      /* Make The normal editor default and
       * Add button to access Visual Mode
       *@author: UltimateSupreme (http://dev.wikia.com/wiki/User:UltimateSupreme)
       */
      $(window).load(function () {
          $("a#ca-ve-edit")
          .attr("href", "?action=edit")
          .off("click");
       
          $("a#ca-edit")
          .attr({
              href: "?veaction=edit",
              title: "Edit in (New) Visual Mode"
          })
          .text("Visual Edit");
      });

      Not completely ready yet. But still works. Might put it on w:c:dev then.

        Loading editor
    • Fandyllic wrote:

      PedroM wrote:

      DanBing wrote: Will there be a setting so that when I click edit, it will default to source editor.

      There already is.

      I think what DanBing was asking for was a way to have the VisualEditor enabled, but have it default to the Source tab when entered. I don't think there is a setting for this.

      Also, PedroM, unless you have some inside knowledge of Wikia's implementation plans (which I doubt you do), your pronouncements have low credibility.

      Because there is no source tab. Source editing is done in an extra modal. But yes, I misunderstood that.

      My "pronouncements" are what I could gather from Wikia's PR, nothing more.

        Loading editor
    • UltimateSupreme wrote:
      Put this in your personal js. Ask staff if it would be allowed site-wide:
      /* Make The normal editor default and
       * Add button to access Visual Mode
       *@author: UltimateSupreme (http://dev.wikia.com/wiki/User:UltimateSupreme)
       */
      $(window).load(function () {
          $("a#ca-ve-edit")
          .attr("href", "?action=edit")
          .off("click");
       
          $("a#ca-edit")
          .attr({
              href: "?veaction=edit",
              title: "Edit in (New) Visual Mode"
          })
          .text("Visual Edit");
      });

      Not completely ready yet. But still works. Might put it on w:c:dev then.

      Thank you! Do you know why this does not work? Did I use some totally crackpot javascript?      


        Loading editor
    • By the way, please put that on the dev.wikia!

        Loading editor
    • That is great, thanks!

        Loading editor
    • UltimateSupreme wrote:
      Put this in your personal js. Ask staff if it would be allowed site-wide:

      This should only be used in personal JS.

        Loading editor
    • UltimateSupreme wrote: Put this in your personal js. Ask staff if it would be allowed site-wide:

      /* Make The normal editor default and
       * Add button to access Visual Mode
       *@author: UltimateSupreme (http://dev.wikia.com/wiki/User:UltimateSupreme)
       */
      $(window).load(function () {
          $("a#ca-ve-edit")
          .attr("href", "?action=edit")
          .off("click");
       
          $("a#ca-edit")
          .attr({
              href: "?veaction=edit",
              title: "Edit in (New) Visual Mode"
          })
          .text("Visual Edit");
      });

      Not completely ready yet. But still works. Might put it on w:c:dev then.

      One problem I seem to be encountering is that the edit button sometimes says Visual Edit instead of showing that in the sub-menu. Do you know how I could fix this?

        Loading editor
    • I think a new separate board should be created for the new Visual Editor like was created for the Fluid layout.

      Please?

        Loading editor
    • Fandyllic wrote:
      I think a new separate board should be created for the new Visual Editor like was created for the Fluid layout.

      Please?

      Sounds like a good idea.

        Loading editor
    • Fandyllic wrote:
      I think a new separate board should be created for the new Visual Editor like was created for the Fluid layout.

      Please?

      Please go ahead and start new threads in Board:Darwin as needed. The separate fluid layout board was created specifically for individual communities' help requests leading up to the Dec 4 release (and for afterward). Now that fluid is released, the only currently active stage of Darwin is VisualEditor.

        Loading editor
    • 54.87.130.240
        Loading editor
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