FANDOM


  • Here are the release notes for FANDOM's code release scheduled for January 15, 2018:

    • NOTABLE: Interlanguage links on the article header and footer will now be alphabetically sorted by language code (e.g. EN, ES, FR, RU), and won't display duplicate links.
    • BUGFIX: We will fix a broken label on Special:Preferences for the 'Layout' option.
      Loading editor
    • Rappy 4187 wrote: NOTABLE: Interlanguage links on the article header will now be alphabetically sorted by language code (e.g. EN, ES, FR, RU), and won't display duplicate links.

      According to this, they will also be alphabetically sorted in the article footer, unlike before?

        Loading editor
    • Why should it be alphabetically sorted? I know several Wikis that use templates to organize their interlanguage links by the quality of the content on each Wiki, & mine does too. This would destroy that.

        Loading editor
    • @KockaAdmiralac: true - I've edited the post to reflect this affects the footer too. There was already a partially enforced order in the footer (EN, DE, ES, RU, PL, FR, IT, PT, followed by wikitext order), and this was inconsistent with the article header links (which solely used wikitext order).

      We've updated both so they're more predictable - both use alphabetical language code ordering. Especially when the list gets long, it can be hard to quickly spot your own language if there's no clear ordering to the links. If you speak French, I don't think it would generally matter a great deal whether the content of the French wiki is better or worse than the German one - what matters is whether it exists.

      This also means you don't need to perfect an order within the wikitext, since it's all dealt with automatically - meaning a bit less article maintenance is needed.

      As always, we're open to feedback.

        Loading editor
    • Well an example use-case I’ve seen is with a group of Russian users that would hang out on the English Wiki because the Russian Wiki at the time simply didn’t have comprehensive data that they liked to read, unlike the English Wiki. This would increase exponentially as the Wikis became smaller, their articles almost universally being stubs. If that’s the case then while we still want to link for SEO / hopefully to send editors to improve those pages, there’d be almost no benefit to readers & so we organized the links thusly.

      It’s important to our UX & has become expected. Would it be possible to make Wiki-specific exceptions? Setting up Interlanguage links is done manually anyway so it’s not like it’d be an extraordinarily unique request since all Interlang setups are unique. If there was an option to order both the header & the footer by the wikitext that’d be excellent.

        Loading editor
    • I hadn't noticed the mis-displayed label. Then again, I don't change my preferences very often. But the date in the original post... did we go through a time warp?

        Loading editor
    • Kirkburn wrote:
      @KockaAdmiralac: true - I've edited the post to reflect this affects the footer too. There was already a partially enforced order in the footer (EN, DE, ES, RU, PL, FR, IT, PT, followed by wikitext order), and this was inconsistent with the article header links (which solely used wikitext order).

      We've updated both so they're more predictable - both use alphabetical language code ordering. Especially when the list gets long, it can be hard to quickly spot your own language if there's no clear ordering to the links. If you speak French, I don't think it would generally matter a great deal whether the content of the French wiki is better or worse than the German one - what matters is whether it exists.

      This also means you don't need to perfect an order within the wikitext, since it's all dealt with automatically - meaning a bit less article maintenance is needed.

      As always, we're open to feedback.

      Cool

        Loading editor
    • Andrewds1021 wrote: But the date in the original post... did we go through a time warp?

      I just realized what you meant by that after Rappy fixed it, lol.

        Loading editor
    • Ursuul wrote: Why should it be alphabetically sorted? I know several Wikis that use templates to organize their interlanguage links by the quality of the content on each Wiki, & mine does too. This would destroy that.

      I don't really get why would you do that since generally you either look for your native language or just take a look at others out of curiosity. But regardless of that, why any changes to interlanguage links would disrupt local templates? I saw too some wikis that use them rather then the simply add the links, but by using a template, aren't you basically forcing the inline version of the links? (e.g. [[:de:Pagename]]) So what does matter what order are they displayed in the footer if you don't display them in the footer in the first place?

      Personally I don't like such templates because they actually don't "pair up" the pages, they just add inline links. I guess the mediawiki software "doesn't see" there are other language versions of that page if you place the links inline (so you cannot use them for possible features in the backend) and I also imagine that interlanguage bot don't work well with them.

        Loading editor
    • Leviathan 89 wrote:
      I don't really get why would you do that since generally you either look for your native language or just take a look at others out of curiosity.
      Again, that ties back into what I mentioned earlier with the Russians. Back in the day when the Russian Wiki was low quality (for us) it was lower in the order, & they knew not to bother reading the pages in Russian since they could get more raw info on the English pages. As Russian pages improved in general we put it higher in the order.
      Leviathan 89 wrote:
      But regardless of that, why any changes to interlanguage links would disrupt local templates? I saw too some wikis that use them rather then the simply add the links, but by using a template, aren't you basically forcing the inline version of the links? (e.g. [[:de:Pagename]]) So what does matter what order are they displayed in the footer if you don't display them in the footer in the first place?
      We don’t use it that way, the way you describe is how Star Wars does it & so the links don’t show up in the footer or header dropdown. For them it wouldn’t matter at all, but for pages like this, where our template isn’t actually inline but the normal type of interlanguage link, so we rely on the backend ordering the links by instance on the page to produce our desired order. We’ve had our way of ordering since before the header update, back when we used the Interlanguage Flags JavaScript snippet to produce a similar dropdown.
      Leviathan 89 wrote:
      Personally I don't like such templates because they actually don't "pair up" the pages, they just add inline links. I guess the mediawiki software "doesn't see" there are other language versions of that page if you place the links inline (so you cannot use them for possible features in the backend) and I also imagine that interlanguage bot don't work well with them.
      I agree with you here, which is why we don’t use that method of interlanguage linking.
        Loading editor
    • Still... I don't understand how you can change the links order in the footer. I took a look at the template used in the page you linked and it seems to me it just add normal interlanguage links and doesn't even allow rearranging them. If you are using JS then, I find hard to believe you cannot come up with a workaround.

        Loading editor
    • You can’t in the footer, just the header, but that’s really all that matters since if you wanted to see an article in a different language, you can hardly be expected to go through the entire article just to get to the links at the bottom. They really don’t matter much to us, only the header, but it’d be nice for them to also be ordered.

      The point of the template is to standardize the order in which the links are placed on the page so that you cannot use any order except the one we specified, which in turn controls the order in which the links are placed in the header dropdown (we no longer use flags JS anymore because the header covers it natively / wouldn’t be allowed anyway). Only this would no longer work the way it did once this update goes live. Since all links use that template, we can edit just the template to change the order on every single page.

        Loading editor
    • I didn't even know this interaction and I'm a veterano user, so I'm surprised that the average reader would have understood that the link order was intentionally that way to reflect the quality of its content, especially since that's generally not true on FANDOM. You mentioned that example with your Russian users, but it seems a quite specific case that might have work because they were users of your wiki, so they were aware of that. A normal visitor either would have not make that assumption or would have checked its language anyway.

      I should also point out that your method would raise change the order for all the pages and not just the one well done. A wiki may have more good content in average, but that doesn't mean all its content is good. So if your goal is to highlight good content, you might want to do something like wikipedia where for each page it highlights well made pages. So, beside the normal interlanguge links, your template could add a list of inline "well made" page as some sort of highlights of other languages.

        Loading editor
    • Thank you for the enlightening discussion above, we appreciate it. We don't currently have plans to make further tweaks to interlanguage links, but we are still open to feedback on the topic.

      We've no special release notes for tomorrow's release, so no new Technical Update post today.

        Loading editor
    • A FANDOM user
        Loading editor
Give Kudos to this message
You've given this message Kudos!
See who gave Kudos to this message