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  • I am working with some others on rejuvenating Templates Wiki, and we have run into a significant dispute regarding the page c:templates:Template:Infobox. Some folks believe that Template:Infobox should be deleted, as has occurred on Starter Pages wiki.

    From what I gather from c:templates:Category talk:Candidates for deletion, they say, and I agree, that more specific infoboxes should be used in the article namespace. I advocate that c:templates:Template:Modular infobox be moved to the c:templates:Template:Infobox location, as it is a portable infobox meeting generic needs that is intentionally disabled in the article namespace. Unlike most infoboxes, one can specify both title and information for each row.

    To put a spin on it, I do not think that a user looking for "Template:Infobox" on Templates Wiki should find nothing there.

    What do you think a user should find if they look for "Template:Infobox"?

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    • Hmm... The two are pretty similar anyways. From what I can tell, the only difference is that Template:Modular_infobox has two groups (instead of one) and is "disabled" in the main namespace (as you mentioned). To be honest, I don't really understand what the message in the "modular" version is trying to say; and I know how to create/use infoboxes/templates. I am thinking that behavior is just going to confuse new users. From my experience, there are two most common behaviors for new users.

      1. Ask questions right away without doing any looking around on their own.
      2. Attempt to just copy-and-paste.

      In the first case, basic requests typically get referred to help pages and more complicated requests get detailed help right away. In the second, it either works or the user gets really confused. As such, I don't really see much benefit to making this change for the first scenario. As for the second scenario, I think it might actually do more harm then good. I mean, what is more confusing than seeing a template that looks good, copying it, and then finding out that it doesn't work? There seem to already be enough "I copied this from that wiki why doesn't it work on mine" threads popping up here on CC.

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    • Andrewds1021 wrote: Hmm... The two are pretty similar anyways. From what I can tell, the only difference is that Template:Modular_infobox has two groups (instead of one) and is "disabled" in the main namespace (as you mentioned). To be honest, I don't really understand what the message in the "modular" version is trying to say; and I know how to create/use infoboxes/templates. I am thinking that behavior is just going to confuse new users. From my experience, there are two most common behaviors for new users.

      1. Ask questions right away without doing any looking around on their own.
      2. Attempt to just copy-and-paste.

      In the first case, basic requests typically get referred to help pages and more complicated requests get detailed help right away. In the second, it either works or the user gets really confused. As such, I don't really see much benefit to making this change for the first scenario. As for the second scenario, I think it might actually do more harm then good. I mean, what is more confusing than seeing a template that looks good, copying it, and then finding out that it doesn't work? There seem to already be enough "I copied this from that wiki why doesn't it work on mine" threads popping up here on CC.

      I realized that I omitted part of a link; in question is the page "Template:Infobox" on Templates Wiki, not here. That template is not portable; I want to replace it with a portable template. To make it clearer I have cut the documentation of Modular Infobox to not mention the other format (but it still supports it).

      I have already edited Template:Documentation on this wiki to direct users seeking templates to check Templates Wiki, as can be seen on Template:Infobox.

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    • I see. Well, I think it should definitely be switched to a portable infobox. However, I am still not a fan of hiding it in the main namespace. I still don't understand the reasoning behind doing so.

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    • As someone who is party to the discussion on the Templates wiki (and an admin there), I don't think there should be a generic portable "Template:Infobox" as it is unlikely to work well for almost any use. The big problem was that portable infoboxes didn't support the ability to be modular, meaning having customizable headings when they are used. Now apparently they do, but Fandom staff doesn't seem to want a generically name one.

      However, having a modular infobox, even if it is non-portable, is useful early on for wikis as they are very flexible for presenting many different types of infobox data without having to make a new infobox every time.

      I think we should just have a notice at "Template:Infobox" with recommendations about what to do based on how much the user wants to customize their infoboxes.

      It's good to have a discussion like this here, because at Templates wiki we were mostly talking about the technical procedures for how to move stuff around and rename it.

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    • I see. Well, I think it should definitely be switched to a portable infobox. However, I am still not a fan of hiding it in the main namespace. I still don't understand the reasoning behind doing so.

      I have been trying to give comfort to some folks who fear the template would be used in article namespace. I was never fully behind that myself, and it can easily be reverted if needed.

      Fandyllic wrote: As someone who is party to the discussion on the Templates wiki (and an admin there), I don't think there should be a generic portable "Template:Infobox" as it is unlikely to work well for almost any use. The big problem was that portable infoboxes didn't support the ability to be modular, meaning having customizable headings when they are used. Now apparently they do, but Fandom staff doesn't seem to want a generically name one.

      However, having a modular infobox, even if it is non-portable, is useful early on for wikis as they are very flexible for presenting many different types of infobox data without having to make a new infobox every time.

      I think we should just have a notice at "Template:Infobox" with recommendations about what to do based on how much the user wants to customize their infoboxes.

      It's good to have a discussion like this here, because at Templates wiki we were mostly talking about the technical procedures for how to move stuff around and rename it.

      I have just feared that the user might find nothing at Template:Infobox on Templates Wiki, not even in the edit summary. If Templates Wiki does not provide this template, people will find it themselves.

      I think that a page at Template:Infobox, rather than a template, would be an excellent solution. We could link to all the infoboxes in question.

      Though I don't think we should be too wordy with the ultimate locations of our infoboxes. Template:Infobox generic and Template:Infobox classic are good names.

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    • Henstepl wrote:

      Though I don't think we should be too wordy with the ultimate locations of our infoboxes. Template:Infobox generic and Template:Infobox classic are good names.

      Can you propose some of this over at Templates wiki? I'm not sure about your name suggestions, so I'll have to think about that.

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