I was offended when I was first shown that rule by a chat admin. This is unacceptable. It also says that you cannot talk about your OWN sexual preferences, so if you say at any point "I'm not straight" then you could get banned, which is ridiculous.
Sarah, that was written to try and head off the number of heated discussions or arguments that would take place on the wiki. It was written at a time when we needed to come up with a procedure for handling problems since at the time the Chat didn't have the ability to specify a duration or a reason why someone was kicked out of the chat room and so the chatmods were not consistent in why a kickban had to be used.
The part that Icanhascheezeburger zeroed in on, which is that the sexual preference of a real-life person or cartoon character not being an appropriate topic of conversation for younger kids, was not to prevent providing information to children about this subject. Rather, it acknowledges two things:
Right now, this is a volatile subject that is pretty much guaranteed to degenerate into a heated discussion, argument and/or name-calling. Maybe in the future it won't be, but right now it is.
People who come into a chat channel and start discussing sex are usually not interested in providing education to people on this topic. They usually have more malicious intent, such as evidenced by trolls, sexual predators and pedophiles.
Neither of these was stated on the page, but since it is a page with guidelines about what is and isn't allowed in the chat, providing a full reason for each guideline would have made the page too long for most people to bother reading. If asked, I could have provided more information about the reasoning behind each point.
In a way, Icanhascheezeburger did ask about this. She left a message on the Talk page for the policy candidate, stating her objection. I happened to see it within about a half hour of when it was posted and was in the process of responding to it when I learned that she had also created a blog here on Community Central to further voice her complaint.
Had she waited to see the answer to her message on the policy candidate's talk page, I would have been able to handle this situation before it escalated. As it is, it took less than a day for the first really inflamatory message to appear, the one by MCcomics, which is a much more hurtful and hateful comment than anything Icanhascheezeburger was objecting to. It demonstrates point #1 above. I realize that messages like this are sometimes left by trolls who want to fan the flames, but again, had she waited, this could have been avoided.
The guidelines page has been updated. It now adds the fact that this subject usually leads to heated discussions/arguments. I will begin the process of having the members of the wiki formally review it for further updates and then it will go to a community vote.
A few days ago, while teaching a kid's art class, one of my young students approached me and said:
"Do you want to hear something special? I have two mommies! Only one of them picks me up from class every day, but I have two mommies. They're both wonderful and they love me very much. I don't have a daddy. I have two mommies. And that makes me special!"
Don't you DARE say that children wouldn't understand homosexuality. Children are accepting people who understand what love, and what family, is.
Hi, Brandon Rhea has closed the comments on the blog - his intention of doing this is to ask you to kindly stop discussing this on the community wiki. If you would like to raise objections to the points RRabbit has made in reply to this wall post, I suggest that you do it on the P&F wiki. Thank you.
The issue is not about whether kids would understand this. The issue is that it is a volatile subject that usually leads to heated discussions, arguments and/or name-calling. Comments like this are helping to prove that point.
ImperiexSeed: We don't want central to become a place where drama from other wikis overflows to. Firstly because then some members of the community might not be aware that the drama is happening - and secondly because it's an administrative haste that requires admins here to come up to speed with the history of the drama and the posters, something that we're not familiar with because we're not involved in the community. I do find it unfortunate that LGBT issues still have "heated discussions" on the P&F wiki, and I hope that changes in the future.
From what I've seen, the admins at the P&F wiki have been demonised for a not too well thought-out policy. Instead of making a fuss here, I'd advise the users to firstly try and rationally discuss the motives behind the policy with the admins, and ask them to change them if necessary. Jumping to conclusions on the matter helped nobody in this case.
If you'd like to discuss the policies and rules of community central, the best place to start that discussion is my wall. I'm happy to address feedback.
Problem is, they banned some of us from their wiki making its pretty hard to discuss these issues in the appropriate place. Therefore, we came here to adress the issue and discuss it. Because we care about these issues and the rule in it's first form WAS homophobic.
Good catch there, Marcaline (I can imagine it'd make it hard to resolve when you're blocked). So let's see if I'm understanding you correctly, this wiki, the P&F wiki, has a certain policy where no one can talk about relationships and affections?
Yeah, well. When we came there, we were told we could talk about ships (relationships between characters), but only if they were boy-girl. Girl-girl or boy-boy relationships could not be discussed as a result of that rule. We considered this rule to be homophobic and mentioned that in their chat... we we're told "not to bring it up anymore". We were then suddenly banned, as a way to silence us. So we went here and "Icanhascheeseburger" created a blog about the way we were treated and the way we saw this rule as bad. The rule has not been changed yet, they still have to vote on it, and we are still banned from there.
This is what I'm going to say on that wiki right now - rather than stop people discussing LGBT, why not ban people who say things offensive against the LGBT like the Goat City wikia does? That would solve half the problems and wouldn't be monopolizing the LGBT community but instead supporting it.
It's like my mum telling me that I should avoid my sister and try my best not to antagonize her accidentally because she can't be asked dealing with my rampant conflictual sister herself. It's not fair.
We came here because I didn't have much faith in the admins of that wiki as they had posted that rule there in the first place and when we inquired about it in (an otherwise empty) chat we were kicked.
I understand why you want us to end this discussion or at least move it, so I'm going to move my end to the P+F wiki.
Not the proper place to discuss it, RandomTime?! Where else could it be effectively discussed? I think Marcaline and the rest are completely justified in doing it here, maybe not necessarily on this person's wall (unless they we apart of it, in which case it would be).
I very much doubt that the P&F wiki wouldn't get rid of homophobes when they show up. I agree with your points and think the policy should be changed, and I think the new wording reflects this well.
Thanks for understanding where I'm coming from here. It's an important discussion to have - but central isn't where we want the drama to go. As a last resort, it's a good place to have a neutral turf, but seeing as neither you or Marcaline are blocked from the wiki, I don't see a reason why this discussion can't take place on the P&F wiki.
We could no longer discuss it there having been banned. And "Icanhascheezeburger" created a blog here about it that was ALSO closed by one of the members of staff. That makes it pretty damn hard for us to discuss this issue. So where else can they expect us to go? Let's get real.
I was banned from chat BEFORE that policy was changed. And I heard the policy is not changed yet, there will be talking about it and then if the other moderators agree, it MAY be changed. I was banned from there chat for only one reason, and that reason was me pointing out that rule was homophobic. I was told not to discuss it, and was banned for doing so. I believe that is pretty unfair and I see now reason why they would not undo my block now.
This is absolutely rediculous. I feel that this rule is completely and utterly homophobic, just as the others, yet I feel that this is so silly as to how the wiki is not doing anything about this situation. SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE.
Hi All, This seems to have gotten quite out of hand. Please all take a minute to relax and reflect on the the discussion. The goal of Wikia is for folks to work together on topics that they are passionate about - and when there is an issue working together to resolve it. From what I can see, a problem was identified, solution proposed and put in place. Now that is has, please don't got back and forth nitpicking each other, and return your focus to working on the wiki.